Author Topic: 2011 By Postion: What happened and Whats Next (Defensive Backs Added)  (Read 8348 times)

January 03, 2012, 10:17:06 PM
Reply #15

Bull_In_Exile

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Re: 2011 By Postion: What happened and Whats Next (Receivers added)
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2012, 10:17:06 PM »
If Z wins the QB spot, watch out for the ball if you're in stands!

(I'm sorry, I had to...)

What's ironic is Z doesn't have the arm to get it in the stands many times! Licata could seriously take some poor fan out in the chairback seats, with his arm, if he tried.

Anyone who hasn't seen Z in practice much or at all since 2010, come out this spring. He's much improved.

He may be improved but it was Dais who won the starting job last season after the spring..
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January 03, 2012, 10:25:24 PM
Reply #16

RecoveringHillbilly

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Re: 2011 By Postion: What happened and Whats Next (Receivers added)
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2012, 10:25:24 PM »
What's ironic is Z doesn't have the arm to get it in the stands many times! Licata could seriously take some poor fan out in the chairback seats, with his arm, if he tried.

Anyone who hasn't seen Z in practice much or at all since 2010, come out this spring. He's much improved.

He may be improved but it was Davis who won the starting job last season after the spring..

And Najja was 3rd string after spring, too. But fall camp is when the jobs are won, and Z surpassed Davis, got 1st team practice reps when Chazz did not and stayed ahead each week.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 10:37:55 PM by RecoveringHillbilly »

January 03, 2012, 10:37:51 PM
Reply #17

UB92

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Re: 2011 By Postion: What happened and Whats Next (Receivers added)
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2012, 10:37:51 PM »
If Z wins the QB spot, watch out for the ball if you're in stands!

(I'm sorry, I had to...)

What's ironic is Z doesn't have the arm to get it in the stands many times! Licata could seriously take some poor fan out in the chairback seats, with his arm, if he tried.

Anyone who hasn't seen Z in practice much or at all since 2010, come out this spring. He's much improved.

That is why it was so disappointing to not see Zordich get more playing time at the end of the year.  Practice is one thing, but you can't really mimic game speed.  It was the speed of the game that Zordich needed to get used to.  At any rate, that is water under the bridge now.

Since Quinn is certainly on the hot seat, I would expect Zordich to start unless he is just terrible or Licata is great this Spring. 

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January 03, 2012, 11:30:30 PM
Reply #18

RecoveringHillbilly

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Re: 2011 By Postion: What happened and Whats Next (Receivers added)
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2012, 11:30:30 PM »
More experience would not have hurt, certainly. But Z has had ample time seeing in-game speed. Here's why I'm not worried:

9 games (3 starting) 254 snaps taken 106 passing attempts 65 QB rushing attempts
5 games (1 starting)   48 snaps taken  15 passing attempts   6 QB rushing attempts
8 games (0 starting)   13 snaps taken    3 passing attempts   8 QB rushing attempts

The top are Z's career numbers. The middle are Davis' experience counts before he was named '10 starter. The bottom are Maynard's before he was named '09 starter.

January 04, 2012, 02:38:46 PM
Reply #19

Bullsalumfan

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Re: 2011 By Postion: What happened and Whats Next (Receivers added)
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2012, 02:38:46 PM »
I feel Licata or another Young QB will get the nod. If Zordich was in the plans for the future why  didnt he play more last year? Towards the end he still didnt even get much if anytime... And Esp if you were only going to use him for like 4 series the whole season why the hell wouldnt you save him and redshirt him to have him for another year if he was in the plans to be the QB for the future... 2yrs with little experience with no promising results and 2yrs left. Or start with a promising young QB fans can enjoy for 3-4yrs! So   either quinns Qb plans doesnt really involve Zordich or most would say on this board he has no idea for some reason how to use his Players!

January 04, 2012, 05:41:11 PM
Reply #20

RecoveringHillbilly

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Re: 2011 By Postion: What happened and Whats Next (Receivers added)
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2012, 05:41:11 PM »
If they had Redshirted Z then Davis would have been the back-up, which I don't think the staff (nor any of us) would have be comfortable with. The staff said all year they would play with the QB who gave us the best chance to win and they were not looking toward 2012. Since Quinn had a chubbie for Chazz anyway because he was the 'surprise announcement' he was going to see Drew Willy-type playing time.

Z's 2010 experience is there, and the results you can throw away since he was a T-FR playing behind one of the worst O-lines in the country. That he could do anything positive while running for his life on each snap is amazing. Willy had similar issues when he was pressed into action as a T-Fr and had some horrible results, too. Last year Z got to play the conventional pocket QB, typified by his TD drive with the reserves against Akron. He's not as talented as the Maynard of '09, but he's far more seasoned in in-game experience, 2 spring practice periods, and 3 fall camps. We'll have to see if Licata is talented enough to beat him out dispute all that.

January 05, 2012, 08:29:00 PM
Reply #21

BrandedBull

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Re: 2011 By Postion: What happened and Whats Next (Receivers added)
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2012, 08:29:00 PM »
I have wore myself thin belly aching all year that another QB should have received playing time when the record when south. 
2014 Better have UB working the Bowl!

January 05, 2012, 09:27:54 PM
Reply #22

BullsFanInChiTown

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Re: 2011 By Postion: What happened and Whats Next (Receivers added)
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2012, 09:27:54 PM »
I have wore myself thin belly aching all year that another QB should have received playing time when the record when south. 

I think we were all in agreement with this. Why Anderson played the final 3 games is something i'll never figure out.

January 05, 2012, 10:33:55 PM
Reply #23

RecoveringHillbilly

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Re: 2011 By Postion: What happened and Whats Next (Receivers added)
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2012, 10:33:55 PM »
Think of it this way: Would anyone think to ask the same thing about the DT position, something very key for us running the 3-4? Smith was having his best year ever while Cahill didn't play nearly so many snaps and Patterson will be coming in as a R-Fr. Would anyone suggest we sit Smith and give younger players starts to get them ready for 2012?

Coaches just don't think that way, generally. You start and give the most time to players who give you the best chance to win today. Like I showed, Z has more experience than past starters (he even has as many career games played [9] as Chazz did before he transferred here), so it's not like he's going into next year like the T-Fr he once was. He probably should have replaced Chazz against BGSU late just because Chazz was playing like crap. But otherwise, Chazz gave us the best chance to win each week. 

January 06, 2012, 01:07:35 AM
Reply #24

UB92

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Re: 2011 By Postion: What happened and Whats Next (Receivers added)
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2012, 01:07:35 AM »
Think of it this way: Would anyone think to ask the same thing about the DT position, something very key for us running the 3-4? Smith was having his best year ever while Cahill didn't play nearly so many snaps and Patterson will be coming in as a R-Fr. Would anyone suggest we sit Smith and give younger players starts to get them ready for 2012?

Coaches just don't think that way, generally. You start and give the most time to players who give you the best chance to win today. Like I showed, Z has more experience than past starters (he even has as many career games played [9] as Chazz did before he transferred here), so it's not like he's going into next year like the T-Fr he once was. He probably should have replaced Chazz against BGSU late just because Chazz was playing like crap. But otherwise, Chazz gave us the best chance to win each week. 

The DT comparison doesn't make sense.  The most important position on the field is QB.  When has a DT won an MVP or POTY?

That whole experience chart you put up a few posts back pre-supposes that snaps are the most important metric for everyone.  As you well know, it isn't.  Everyone develops differently and, from looking at Zordich, he seemed to me that the game was fast for him (relative to the other guys).  That is why, in my opinion, Zordich needed all the game snaps he could get (regardless of how many Davis or Maynard received).
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January 06, 2012, 04:28:25 AM
Reply #25

RecoveringHillbilly

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Re: 2011 By Postion: What happened and Whats Next (Receivers added)
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2012, 04:28:25 AM »
The DT comparison doesn't make sense.  The most important position on the field is QB.  When has a DT won an MVP or POTY?

That whole experience chart you put up a few posts back pre-supposes that snaps are the most important metric for everyone.  As you well know, it isn't.  Everyone develops differently and, from looking at Zordich, he seemed to me that the game was fast for him (relative to the other guys).  That is why, in my opinion, Zordich needed all the game snaps he could get (regardless of how many Davis or Maynard received).

I was waiting for a reply like that from someone. I'm talking hypothetically, why should we sit a QB when there are other positions that have serious concerns? When has a staff sat a Sr QB when he is not sucking so bad to cause loses? Rarely if ever. You see it when the starter is performing hopelessly.

Snaps just shows how many plays a player has experienced, a more descriptive metric than just games played or passes thrown, which I've shown as well. I never placed a value on it being 'more important' than anything else.

You could judge the game being "too fast" for him this year? Relative to what other guys? The Tennessee game on tv, sure, it was fast for everone. But the other games he saw this year? He didn't drop back in his 4 snaps at Temple (3 hand-offs and a roll-out run where he was sacked). Too fast for him against the crushing defenses of SBU and Akron??? When he was a combined 3-6 passing, a ton of hand-offs, 8 1st downs and with a TD drive included? He handed off or did a QB sneak in 75% of his snaps this year so I'm not sure just how anyone could sufficiently judge his "playing speed" with that sample size. 

He impressed the staff all year in his improvement from 2010 and made them think about him as starter until late in fall camp. I don't see how Z can make people sick with worry when, 1) Who the heck is going to return punts for us when the most any returning players have is 1?, 2) We have no clue who will be the starting NT, which Smith showed (with the Ohio game especially) is an impact position, 3) we have a gaggle of players who could be the 4th WR but no clue who will, or won't, step up. Unknowns certainly worry me more than a Jr potentially at QB.

January 06, 2012, 09:22:48 AM
Reply #26

BrandedBull

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Re: 2011 By Postion: What happened and Whats Next (Receivers added)
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2012, 09:22:48 AM »
Hillbilly, if we sat a player on the defensive side of the ball at the end of last season with the hopes the team will be better this upcoming season after all hope on a bowl game was gone, I would have been all for it.  But come on, you can't compare any position on the field to QB.  I just thought we are at a place understanding that QB is the most important and hardest position to play in college football.  Goes back to me saying four QB's in for years is a terrible thing. 
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January 06, 2012, 01:17:36 PM
Reply #27

RecoveringHillbilly

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Re: 2011 By Postion: What happened and Whats Next (Receivers added)
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2012, 01:17:36 PM »
Hillbilly, if we sat a player on the defensive side of the ball at the end of last season with the hopes the team will be better this upcoming season after all hope on a bowl game was gone, I would have been all for it.  But come on, you can't compare any position on the field to QB.  I just thought we are at a place understanding that QB is the most important and hardest position to play in college football.  Goes back to me saying four QB's in for years is a terrible thing. 

Again, it was a hypothetical. I'm NOT saying QB isn't the most important position. My point all along is, why worry about Z when there are more dire issues with this team (As we'll see further along as B_I_E posts his position musings)? The QB's imporatance can wax and wain as well. I agree with Bob DiCesare and other reporters that UB's QB's next year will not be asked to do as much as was asked of Chazz.

Us having four QB's in four years is due to a certain past QB having an ego. It would not have been this way otherwise. Betwen Z, Licata, and Michael, we'll start seeing stabilization and some year-to-year contiuality at the position. Everyone should feel warm and fuzzy about the position the next 5-6 seasons.   


January 06, 2012, 01:50:27 PM
Reply #28

BrandedBull

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Re: 2011 By Postion: What happened and Whats Next (Receivers added)
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2012, 01:50:27 PM »
I have to totally disagree.  I do not believe that their is a more dire issue than QB with this team.  Look at the defense we had two years ago and look how terrible this team was with an underwhelming QB.  I also do not completely agree with DiCesare.  If I am the defensive coordinator and game planing for UB, I stack the box to stop the run and dare this team to beat me in the air.  Can we beat teams by throwing the ball next year?  That to me is the biggest question to answer on this team.  What is a bigger issue than QB for this team?

I am not going to comment on whether this team can or cannot pass the ball.  I just do not have an educated answer for that.  My gut is telling me that one of the QB's will eventually emerge but I think it will be after some lumps early in the season.   You may not see the starter of game one being the answer. I have not seen enough from Quinn and this staff that suggested that he will have this team firing on all cylinders on offense next season.  I also do not want to hear any excuse when the QB struggles out of the gate that he needs experience.  We had chances last year, unfortunately we had at least three games to provide experience.   

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January 06, 2012, 02:58:01 PM
Reply #29

RecoveringHillbilly

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Re: 2011 By Postion: What happened and Whats Next (Receivers added)
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2012, 02:58:01 PM »
I'd say, don't let 2010 bias your 'gut feeling'. 2 years ago the QB situation was as bad as it could get; only 1 guy with ANY experience, and T-Freshmen who were in their 1st Fall camp. That does not compare what we have this year: A Sr and Jr with starting experience and a R-Fr who will have been through 1 Spring and 2 Fall camps

Yes, Z never threw down the field the way Davis (inaccurately) did. But he is very close to Chazz's ability. Chazz usually threw short and had maybe 1 bigger play of 40-50 yards that would account for 1/4 to 1/5 of his yardage in a game. In Z's start against Miami he had 210 yards and threw for 9 1st downs, so even in the depths of 2010 he showed he can throw down the field.

And besides Fall 2010, Z's been ahead of Davis. B_I_E's note that 'Davis beat out Z in Spring 2011' does not take into account what was going on with Z:

1) Davis beat out everyone else in Fall 2010 because they had no experience until;
2) Davis plays so badly, and Z plays so well in practice, that Z takes the spot until;
3) Davis gets the job back only because Z gets hurt then;
4) Stays ahead of Z in the Spring, gaining the benefit of Z having missed winter conditioning due to his rib injury;
5) A fully healthy and conditioned Z wins 2nd string in Fall 2011 and;
6) Stays ahead of Davis every week of practice and in each week's 2-deep.