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Author Topic: Finances for the tourney  (Read 17461 times)

March 22, 2018, 09:44:19 PM
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admin

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Finances for the tourney
« on: March 22, 2018, 09:44:19 PM »
Does anyone know if we actually made money by going to the tourney and this year winning 1 game.  I think we share the revenue with the rest of the MAC, but I would think we also get more of it. 

Also on the women.  Do we actually make money with going to the sweet sixteen?  I would think the women actually will bring in revenue this year.  2 big wins in the tourney and going to the sweet sixteen.  Anyone know the numbers?

March 22, 2018, 10:27:00 PM
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ed

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Re: Finances for the tourney
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2018, 10:27:00 PM »

Interesting discussion in tournament finances

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/sports/ncaa-money/

March 23, 2018, 06:58:45 AM
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BrooklynBull

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Re: Finances for the tourney
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2018, 06:58:45 AM »
Could not read the article because it is behind a pay wall.

However, my understanding is that money is paid out per game played which is really given to the conferences and split among the schools.  I also believe the further you go the more money is paid in the later rounds.  That is why the PAC12 is upset this year.  Only three games played.  Not sure of the schools that earn the money get a higher percentage.

More money could be coming in on the wome's side with at least six games being played.

March 23, 2018, 08:19:57 AM
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admin

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Re: Finances for the tourney
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2018, 08:19:57 AM »
From this it looks like women’s bball do not get paid extra for NCAA.
https://www.courant.com/opinion/op-ed/hc-op-zimbalist-women-uconn-basketball-ncaa-0330-20170329-story.html

So it is up to increasing attendance next year for women to increase revenue. I highly doubt FLJ gets a big raise. Maybe a small one. But I also doubt other schools will pay much more.

March 23, 2018, 08:28:07 AM
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skrabukes

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Re: Finances for the tourney
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2018, 08:28:07 AM »
We need FLJ and NO. Local interest is at an all time high for UB bball, both men's and women's. If one or both depart, the interest will waver and people will say things like "typical UB" and "UB is a minor league", etc. Pay them. You're getting a buyout for Allen, you'll have increased ticket sales and donations. Increase the ticket prices a small bit, increase the mandatory seat donations a little bit, get the money from somewhere, but make and keep them happy. They've earned it.

March 23, 2018, 10:07:27 AM
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guru

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Re: Finances for the tourney
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2018, 10:07:27 AM »
Agree Skrabukes. We really need to have both coaches Oats and Jack back next year. The high level interest and enthusiasm for both programs is at an all time high. UB should continue the momentum by increased maketing and keeping the positive exposure in the public eye. One point - season tickets in certain 100 sections are &135.00 per seat and you get both men and women's games!! If you contribute to fund raising efforts  or business backs the Bulls among other funds more perks are given out. For the type of exciting competitive play we have seen the last few years it is the best buy in town and way better than with our pro teams. Sorry and I mean no slight to the fans that support pro teams but I am over supporting all the millionaires  when we have to pay crazy outrageous prices with nothing to show for it. Go Bulls!!!!

March 23, 2018, 08:55:47 PM
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rma

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Re: Finances for the tourney
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2018, 08:55:47 PM »
Local interest is at an all time high for UB bball, both men's and women's.
Confirmed by a whopping 70 new ticket commitments across basketball and football this week.  I'm glad that we got those 70, but you would think that beating Zona and making the S16 with the women would get a better response.  Meanwhile it is very possible that both basketball programs will have won more games this season than the Sabres, who play 82 games.
So, thunder through, Go Blue! Give a Cheer, never fear!

March 24, 2018, 10:44:36 AM
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RapidsFan

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Re: Finances for the tourney
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2018, 10:44:36 AM »
I think having at least a game or two a year at KeyBank Center would draw a lot of people.

Talking to a lot of older people around the city, they're all nostalgic for when Canisius used to play at The Aud years ago. No one from the city has any desire to trek out to Amherst, but I think the city definitely has an under-served community of basketball fans. An NBA team looks unlikely, so why not give them a few games each year?

March 24, 2018, 12:01:28 PM
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SGBull

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Re: Finances for the tourney
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2018, 12:01:28 PM »
I think having at least a game or two a year at KeyBank Center would draw a lot of people.

Talking to a lot of older people around the city, they're all nostalgic for when Canisius used to play at The Aud years ago. No one from the city has any desire to trek out to Amherst, but I think the city definitely has an under-served community of basketball fans. An NBA team looks unlikely, so why not give them a few games each year?

I think this is a solid idea. Especially because of the long winter break students have. Maybe they could schedule a few games downtown during that time.

March 24, 2018, 02:19:09 PM
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guru

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Re: Finances for the tourney
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2018, 02:19:09 PM »
The only way games downtown would have a chance of drawing are: All the teams would have to have years like this year having winning records and overall exciting play and players. The schools would have to maket the heck out of their programs along with the Buffalo News running more in depth articles on the teams and players. The TV stations and the local radio stations would have to talk more about the teams and have interviews but as we know the majority of the talk  is only about the Sabres and Bills. It would take a big time push by the AD's of the schools to achieve any success in getting more fans coming back to local college teams. Our family continues to be passionate about UB athletics and the local college teams. Go Bulls!!!!

March 24, 2018, 02:53:15 PM
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squire17

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Re: Finances for the tourney
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2018, 02:53:15 PM »
You would have to get some big names to come here for that type of venue. Years ago Canisius had a tournament around Christmas and they use to get pretty big names. There is no point in playing downtown, if you’re playing a middle of the road team - that’s a recipe for 3 or 4 thousand fans in a cavernous arena...horrible. It may take a few years, but if UB can sustain its push to consistent excellence it may be able to get some of the Villanovas, UCONNs, Louisvilles to play here. That would be terrific! Go Bulls!

March 24, 2018, 03:37:52 PM
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dutchcountry7

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Re: Finances for the tourney
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2018, 03:37:52 PM »
Does anyone know if we actually made money by going to the tourney and this year winning 1 game.  I think we share the revenue with the rest of the MAC, but I would think we also get more of it. 

Also on the women.  Do we actually make money with going to the sweet sixteen?  I would think the women actually will bring in revenue this year.  2 big wins in the tourney and going to the sweet sixteen.  Anyone know the numbers?

I will gladly explain how this works.

Every game in the Men's NCAA tournament (except for the National Championship game) awards one unit to the conference for each team represented in the game.  Teams in the National Championship game don't earn a unit.  The national championship game is enough award.

A conference retains a unit for six years from when they play in a game.  The First Four are regular games and get a unit.

It is important to remember that the NCAA has a structure where the individual member schools vote on policy but the NCAA deals with member conferences.  So all payments go directly to conferences and all auto bids are awarded to conferences to handle.

So, the MAC earned two units this year since the Bulls were represented in two games.  The units will be paid out over six years. 

So if a conference, theoretically, had one team in the tournament every year and that team always went 0-1, the conference would always be paid six units since when one unit expired after their six years, it would be replaced with another unit.

Every year the NCAA looks at how profitable the NCAA tournament was and puts that profit into the Basketball Championship fund.  The fund is then divided into the number of units and that sets the unit value.  Currently, each unit is valued at about $275k.

Since it is paid out over six years, being represented in one NCAA game is valued at about $1.65MM.  (6 years multiplied by the Unit Value).

Almost all conferences collect that money and either use it to run their conference events (renting arenas for championship events, paying for staff, etc) or they disperse it to the member school evenly.  So conference schools in a conference with a lot of teams can get less per unit.

The Atlantic 10 does things differently.  They are the only conference I am aware of that does this.  But they have a 'eat what you kill' model that was designed to prevent their top teams from leaving the conference.  In the A10, teams that earn the NCAA unit will be paid 75% of the unit and 25% goes into the pool to be awarded to the other A10 member schools.

So to figure out how much the MAC is awarded, only only need to look at the past six years and see how many games the conferences was represented in and see what the unit is valued at for the year. 

As a result of the structure, Kent State and Eastern Michigan made as much money from Buffalo's win as Buffalo did when it comes to the NCAA units.  Of course, Buffalo got a huge boost in marketing, recruiting, and everything else associated with a successful program.

Conferences prefer to share the money equally in order to help benefit all teams especially when some of the teams that aren't winning are facing financial hardships as a result of not having success.

The unique structure of the A10 means that St. Bonaventure mades a ton more money than Buffalo.  (75% of their two units, is about $2.5MM directly to the school).  This is why Dayton and VCU have so much money and Fordham doesn't.

It is also important to mention that the conference retains the units.  So Wichita State left all their units in the Missouri Valley when they left the conference and when the Big East split the American Conference retained all future NCAA payments that were due to the conference from the NCAA and the newly created conference was able to keep the name 'Big East'.


March 25, 2018, 09:10:56 PM
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BrooklynBull

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Re: Finances for the tourney
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2018, 09:10:56 PM »
I think having at least a game or two a year at KeyBank Center would draw a lot of people.

Talking to a lot of older people around the city, they're all nostalgic for when Canisius used to play at The Aud years ago. No one from the city has any desire to trek out to Amherst, but I think the city definitely has an under-served community of basketball fans. An NBA team looks unlikely, so why not give them a few games each year?

Where is the money to rent the arena coming from?

March 26, 2018, 11:35:38 AM
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dutchcountry7

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Re: Finances for the tourney
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2018, 11:35:38 AM »
I think having at least a game or two a year at KeyBank Center would draw a lot of people.

Talking to a lot of older people around the city, they're all nostalgic for when Canisius used to play at The Aud years ago. No one from the city has any desire to trek out to Amherst, but I think the city definitely has an under-served community of basketball fans. An NBA team looks unlikely, so why not give them a few games each year?

Well, it isn't like we haven't already tested that idea.

http://www.ubbulls.com/sports/mbkb/2016-17/releases/20161217tscd3q

People talk but don't act.  What they are really saying is they long for the days when the Little Three were respected nationally. 

Renting the arena is extremely expensive.  If UB wants to spend money on something they should just use money to pay some teams to come in for games.  Would much rather play Albany, Binghamton, or Cleveland State for a game at Alumni Arena than bring in Pitt-Braford or Central Penn.   



March 26, 2018, 12:30:55 PM
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bullsbball

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Re: Finances for the tourney
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2018, 12:30:55 PM »
I'm not a big fan of playing at KeyBank.  Last time UB played there, the tickets weren't even included in the Season Ticket package. The students also don't show up down there (assuming the game is in November or early December when they could).

I think they get bigger crowds at Alumni.

When the football team played at New Era Field a few years ago, the place was empty.

If they want a game at KeyBank, it should be against Syracuse or other big name schools  rather than part of the Little 3.


 


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