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Author Topic: 2018-2019 Schedules  (Read 43603 times)

August 07, 2018, 10:19:13 AM
Reply #30

ChubbyHubby

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Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2018, 10:19:13 AM »
It boggles the mind that a University will have a student: professor ratio of 40>1, while the athlete: coach ratio is 4 to 1. That is pathetic, and has nothing specific to UB. That is the sign of a sick culture.
While I agree that the ratios are a bad sign, this statement itself is very misleading.  In your 4 to 1 ratio, you've lumped coaches, trainers, equipment personnel, admin, graduate assistants, ... all under the umbrella of coach, but your professor ratio of 40>1, you seem to have left all of the support staff positions out.  The ratios would still be out of wack, but if you're going to make comparisons, use all of the data.
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August 07, 2018, 10:48:23 AM
Reply #31

dutchcountry7

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Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2018, 10:48:23 AM »
The tv money in football is too good

Each school in the MAC gets $700k a year from the TV deal.  For comparison, UB is getting $1.8 Million for ONE GAME at Ohio State.

The TV money is horrible! And it is only that high because of the weeknight games which no one attends but gives ESPN something to put on TV. 




« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 11:29:07 AM by dutchcountry7 »

August 07, 2018, 10:55:01 AM
Reply #32

dutchcountry7

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Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2018, 10:55:01 AM »

1. Could be true for UB, the stadium is so bad it's a negative X-factor. Your original post said this would be a G5-wide issue, I disagree but time will tell.

4. If UB leadership said lets spend our resources at the same rate as St. Bonaventure, we'd have between 38 million (5.75% of the endowment) and $46 million ($1,642/student).


1. The football stadium is the biggest problem with the program.  It is a horrible venue for games.  You are miles away from the field.  There is no atmosphere or noise. 

4. If students and fans attended UB basketball games at the same ratio as the Bonnies we would have 10,000 students and 60,000 alumni/fans at each basketball game.  Let's be honest.  The Bonnies care about basketball more than UB.  UB seems to have a bigger interest in the Bills and the Sabres.  Which is what the Pegulas want.  They don't want the Bulls pulling away from their 'One Buffalo' sports/entertainment monopoly.

August 07, 2018, 02:58:46 PM
Reply #33

bull_trojan

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Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2018, 02:58:46 PM »
The tv money in football is too good

Each school in the MAC gets $700k a year from the TV deal.  For comparison, UB is getting $1.8 Million for ONE GAME at Ohio State.

The TV money is horrible! And it is only that high because of the weeknight games which no one attends but gives ESPN something to put on TV.

...Compared to the A10's previous deal that gave teams about $312k a year... (https://www.vuhoops.com/2012/10/3/3448930/basketball-isnt-worth-much-to-tv)
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August 07, 2018, 05:28:06 PM
Reply #34

promotherobot

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Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2018, 05:28:06 PM »

1. Could be true for UB, the stadium is so bad it's a negative X-factor. Your original post said this would be a G5-wide issue, I disagree but time will tell.

4. If UB leadership said lets spend our resources at the same rate as St. Bonaventure, we'd have between 38 million (5.75% of the endowment) and $46 million ($1,642/student).


1. The football stadium is the biggest problem with the program.  It is a horrible venue for games.  You are miles away from the field.  There is no atmosphere or noise. 

4. If students and fans attended UB basketball games at the same ratio as the Bonnies we would have 10,000 students and 60,000 alumni/fans at each basketball game.  Let's be honest.  The Bonnies care about basketball more than UB.  UB seems to have a bigger interest in the Bills and the Sabres.  Which is what the Pegulas want.  They don't want the Bulls pulling away from their 'One Buffalo' sports/entertainment monopoly.
I don't think that's true. If anything the Pegulas would love for the Bulls to be enough of a draw to share their stadium with them. And why do you think it's a zero sum game? Does following UB require renouncing the Bills?

August 07, 2018, 05:30:44 PM
Reply #35

squire17

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Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2018, 05:30:44 PM »
It boggles the mind that a University will have a student: professor ratio of 40>1, while the athlete: coach ratio is 4 to 1. That is pathetic, and has nothing specific to UB. That is the sign of a sick culture.
While I agree that the ratios are a bad sign, this statement itself is very misleading.  In your 4 to 1 ratio, you've lumped coaches, trainers, equipment personnel, admin, graduate assistants, ... all under the umbrella of coach, but your professor ratio of 40>1, you seem to have left all of the support staff positions out.  The ratios would still be out of wack, but if you're going to make comparisons, use all of the data.

Well put. FWIW, I thought of the same thing after I had already posted. I thought that I had submitted another post that addressed my error, but it failed to post for some reason. I was too lazy to post again. You are absolutely right, though. I would love to know what the actual ratio is when all the admin/support staff is included.

August 07, 2018, 06:17:49 PM
Reply #36

rma

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Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2018, 06:17:49 PM »
The tv money in football is too good

Each school in the MAC gets $700k a year from the TV deal.  For comparison, UB is getting $1.8 Million for ONE GAME at Ohio State.

The TV money is horrible! And it is only that high because of the weeknight games which no one attends but gives ESPN something to put on TV.

...Compared to the A10's previous deal that gave teams about $312k a year... (https://www.vuhoops.com/2012/10/3/3448930/basketball-isnt-worth-much-to-tv)
What does St Bonaventure's football program get for ONE GAME at Ohio State?
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August 07, 2018, 07:17:10 PM
Reply #37

squire17

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Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2018, 07:17:10 PM »
Reportedly double what UB’s baseball, lacrosse, and ice hockey teams have earned in the last ten years.

August 08, 2018, 09:21:47 AM
Reply #38

dutchcountry7

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Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2018, 09:21:47 AM »
The tv money in football is too good

Each school in the MAC gets $700k a year from the TV deal.  For comparison, UB is getting $1.8 Million for ONE GAME at Ohio State.

The TV money is horrible! And it is only that high because of the weeknight games which no one attends but gives ESPN something to put on TV.

...Compared to the A10's previous deal that gave teams about $312k a year... (https://www.vuhoops.com/2012/10/3/3448930/basketball-isnt-worth-much-to-tv)


I don't know what the A10 deal is and nor do I care.


You said the MAC made great money off their TV contracts and they don't.  $700k for all sports--basketball and football--is not a lucrative football contract. 


If UB could get some fans to the games, they could make more than that money from an actual fan base and tell ESPN no thanks for the weeknight games.  But the stadium is horrible for fans so why would anyone go see them in person on a Wednesday or Thursday night when they can watch on TV and flip back and forth between other things going on?




August 08, 2018, 09:45:06 AM
Reply #39

dutchcountry7

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Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2018, 09:45:06 AM »

1. Could be true for UB, the stadium is so bad it's a negative X-factor. Your original post said this would be a G5-wide issue, I disagree but time will tell.

4. If UB leadership said lets spend our resources at the same rate as St. Bonaventure, we'd have between 38 million (5.75% of the endowment) and $46 million ($1,642/student).


1. The football stadium is the biggest problem with the program.  It is a horrible venue for games.  You are miles away from the field.  There is no atmosphere or noise. 

4. If students and fans attended UB basketball games at the same ratio as the Bonnies we would have 10,000 students and 60,000 alumni/fans at each basketball game.  Let's be honest.  The Bonnies care about basketball more than UB.  UB seems to have a bigger interest in the Bills and the Sabres.  Which is what the Pegulas want.  They don't want the Bulls pulling away from their 'One Buffalo' sports/entertainment monopoly.
I don't think that's true. If anything the Pegulas would love for the Bulls to be enough of a draw to share their stadium with them. And why do you think it's a zero sum game? Does following UB require renouncing the Bills?


It is not a zero sum but there is a finite number of football fans in WNY and there is a finite number of football entertainment dollars.

How many people are going to shell out $100 to UB on Saturday (or Tuesday) to watch football and then turn around and shell out $300 on Sunday to watch football?

They will do one or the other.  And the Bills have the atmosphere.  The Bulls do not.  And college students don't go to games when teams don't play on campus so the atmosphere will be worse if they ever tried to abondon UB Stadium and join the Bills with a shared facility.  Ask Pitt, Temple, Miami, UMass, or even Georgia State about this.  There is a reason Georgia State got their own stadium, UMass moved most of their games back home, and Temple is in the process of getting their own.  It is the same reason that Cincinnati (UC/Bangles) , Houston (UH/Texans), Seattle (UW/Seahawks), San Fran (Stanford/SJSU/49ers), DC (Maryland/Redskins) and many others don't share facilities.  Hell, the two separate stadiums for Vanderbilt and the Titans are closer together than UB's downtown campus and the main campus. And you can get from Georgia State's stadium to the Falcon's stadium, and then to Georgia Tech's stadium all in less time than getting between the UB campuses.

There is a reason no one wants to share stadiums despite it costing a lot of money to operate the stadiums.

Buffalo is a small market. Right between Birmingham, Alabama and Grand Rapids, Michigan in population.  Small by NFL standards and even smaller when you consider there is also an FBS team. 

Pegulas want the Bills and Sabres to be the only sports entertainment options in town.  If the fall you watch the Bills and in the winter/spring you watch the Sabres.  That is their key to success.  UB is a competior and they know it. A competitor that can undercut them because of more tax payer support and no labor cost for their players.  If UB took off it would be a big hit to the Pegula's business.




« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 09:56:17 AM by dutchcountry7 »

August 08, 2018, 10:13:36 AM
Reply #40

BrooklynBull

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Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2018, 10:13:36 AM »
The tv money in football is too good

Each school in the MAC gets $700k a year from the TV deal.  For comparison, UB is getting $1.8 Million for ONE GAME at Ohio State.

The TV money is horrible! And it is only that high because of the weeknight games which no one attends but gives ESPN something to put on TV.

...Compared to the A10's previous deal that gave teams about $312k a year... (https://www.vuhoops.com/2012/10/3/3448930/basketball-isnt-worth-much-to-tv)


I don't know what the A10 deal is and nor do I care.


You said the MAC made great money off their TV contracts and they don't.  $700k for all sports--basketball and football--is not a lucrative football contract. 


If UB could get some fans to the games, they could make more than that money from an actual fan base and tell ESPN no thanks for the weeknight games.  But the stadium is horrible for fans so why would anyone go see them in person on a Wednesday or Thursday night when they can watch on TV and flip back and forth between other things going on?

Regardless of how high you got attendance, even enough people to offset the current level of TV money, why would you ever say no to more money?

August 08, 2018, 10:51:38 AM
Reply #41

MillenniumBull

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Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2018, 10:51:38 AM »
Why would we want to drop football? We are on the verge of having one of the best years in our D-1 era, we put players in the pros (Khalil Mack), currently building a field house, have exposure on TV/ESPN which helps UB's brand to attract future students and we have income from the TV/MAC deal just to list a few reasons. Why not have both football and basketball AND be good at both? Your view is small minded. Just because Bonnies can't afford a football program doesn't mean we can't. We are the largest state public college, we can have football and basketball. This isn't Olean...

Let me start by saying, I do not want to drop a level in football, (remove the track, invest in the band, improve the concert series, etc...). Just wanted to point out that there are quite a few schools who put more players in the NFL at the FCS level then UB does (hell, Mack was going to FCS Liberty before UB poached their defensive coordinator), ND for example, draw more fans then UB, and still get their once or twice a year big payoff games vs P5 schools. 

And there is no conference that plays better basketball that wants UB. Dropping down won’t make the A10 suddenly interested (nor would the Bonnie’s like the idea), American would take Toledo over UB and they aren’t looking in the MAC direction anyway. Like it or not, until UB starts dominating the MAC consistently in both major sports, (not going to happen, playing field too level) we will be a MAC member.  I believe the MAC can return to being a multi bid league. The 2004 squad deserved an at large. UB will have the SOS this year to be one, just have to win some big games and UB will be one of those teams that other bubble teams will be praying we win in Cleveland.


August 08, 2018, 11:03:06 AM
Reply #42

dutchcountry7

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Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2018, 11:03:06 AM »
The tv money in football is too good

Each school in the MAC gets $700k a year from the TV deal.  For comparison, UB is getting $1.8 Million for ONE GAME at Ohio State.

The TV money is horrible! And it is only that high because of the weeknight games which no one attends but gives ESPN something to put on TV.

...Compared to the A10's previous deal that gave teams about $312k a year... (https://www.vuhoops.com/2012/10/3/3448930/basketball-isnt-worth-much-to-tv)


I don't know what the A10 deal is and nor do I care.


You said the MAC made great money off their TV contracts and they don't.  $700k for all sports--basketball and football--is not a lucrative football contract. 


If UB could get some fans to the games, they could make more than that money from an actual fan base and tell ESPN no thanks for the weeknight games.  But the stadium is horrible for fans so why would anyone go see them in person on a Wednesday or Thursday night when they can watch on TV and flip back and forth between other things going on?

Regardless of how high you got attendance, even enough people to offset the current level of TV money, why would you ever say no to more money?


It isn't more money though.  Not when you take a long term look at it. Weeknight games are a significant hit to a program.  Less people attend the games, traffic is much harder to manage, you have to pay more for policiing, there is less alumni engagement (it isn't a full day event), and many schools have to cancel classes in the afternoon to accomodate.  And that is just a few of the issues... 

There is a reason teams like Indiana, Vanderbilt, Wake Forrest and other low revenue P5 programs still play on Saturdays despite the day being crowded and they struggle with exposure.

Their games would be more valuable to TV networks than the MAC but they refuse to move because it will hurt their programs.  Fan, student, and alumni enagagement is the most important long term metric.

August 08, 2018, 12:34:07 PM
Reply #43

bull_trojan

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Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2018, 12:34:07 PM »

You said the MAC made great money off their TV contracts and they don't.  $700k for all sports--basketball and football--is not a lucrative football contract. 


That's not what I said. I said at the G5 level, the money is too good, one of several reasons schools are not looking to drop football.

As far as Buffalo goes, I agree with you on the stadium and the weeknight games, our struggles are lack of fan support, but these things damage our ability to build a fan base. At the end of the day, our only hope is for the product on the field to improve.
@conradmostiller #ItsOn

August 08, 2018, 02:59:38 PM
Reply #44

bull_trojan

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Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2018, 02:59:38 PM »
@conradmostiller #ItsOn

 


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