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UB Sports => Buffalo Bulls Basketball => Topic started by: BrooklynBull on August 01, 2018, 10:47:56 AM

Title: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: BrooklynBull on August 01, 2018, 10:47:56 AM
The schedules are released:

Men: http://ubbulls.com/sports/mbkb/2018-19/schedule

Women: St. Bonaventure and MAC only http://ubbulls.com/sports/wbkb/2018-19/schedule


Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: enrique14150 on August 01, 2018, 10:53:13 AM
No Purple Chickens listed.  Maybe it hasn't been confirmed yet?

Yet again, except for maybe Southern Illinois, no one big is willing to come here.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: dutchcountry7 on August 01, 2018, 12:53:31 PM
No Purple Chickens listed.  Maybe it hasn't been confirmed yet?

Yet again, except for maybe Southern Illinois, no one big is willing to come here.

A home/home in the same season?  You only see that when two teams are not able to find anyone to fill their schedule and they get desperate. 


Sounds like both sides wanted a quality home game.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: RochBull on August 01, 2018, 05:18:27 PM
No Purple Chickens listed.  Maybe it hasn't been confirmed yet?

Yet again, except for maybe Southern Illinois, no one big is willing to come here.

Bummed about no Niagara... had to text my sister who's a Niagara alumni and let her know we'll not be able to watch the game together.

Glad they're playing Syracuse again, UB needs to regularly play them in Basketball and Football.

It looks like the national exposure has made a better quality of overall schedule
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: RecoveringHillbilly on August 01, 2018, 06:53:57 PM
Really like that we play Toledo and EMU twice from the West, projected next best teams after us. RPI boosts!
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: DooleyBull06 on August 01, 2018, 09:20:40 PM
I’m afraid we find ourselves in the same position that the likes of Gonzaga once found themselves, an up and coming mid major that no P5 conference team wants to schedule on the road.  Therefore it is imperative that we play the likes of Syracuse, West Virginia and Marquette (even if it’s on the road). But also find our way into some of these early season tournaments. Which is why I disappointed in the field for this Belfast classic.  But hey it’s exposure. That all said I’m ok with the schedule. Just wish we had better quality teams coming to Alumni. If not a P5 school someone better than a St. Francis.

And we better hope SIU is good, otherwise playing them twice will hurt us in the metrics.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: bull_trojan on August 02, 2018, 04:41:03 AM
2017 we averaged 3791 fans (assuming paid attendance) and made no more than 249,329 in Ticket Revenue. For conversation say each of those tickets were season and each paid $100 in donation, then basketball would have made $48,340 at the most per game in 2017.

Same numbers in 2018, but more home games and lower average attendance, that number falls to $39,453/game in 2018.

Buying a home game these days starts at around 20k and goes up to around 100k so economically it's gonna be hard to bring a team in. I think we need to start getting more 6k crowds and the good home games will follow.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: dutchcountry7 on August 02, 2018, 09:32:40 AM
2017 we averaged 3791 fans (assuming paid attendance) and made no more than 249,329 in Ticket Revenue. For conversation say each of those tickets were season and each paid $100 in donation, then basketball would have made $48,340 at the most per game in 2017.

Same numbers in 2018, but more home games and lower average attendance, that number falls to $39,453/game in 2018.

Buying a home game these days starts at around 20k and goes up to around 100k so economically it's gonna be hard to bring a team in. I think we need to start getting more 6k crowds and the good home games will follow.

That is total attendance not paid attendance. They count the students.

You haven't been able to buy a D1 team for $20k for a long time.  $35k is the going rate for a sub 200 team that is local and can bus in.  P6 schools are now paying as much as $120k for a game.

Teams like UB typically use their money from playing a team like Syracuse to buy some games.  Ticket sales don't buy games.  UB is buying games in the tournament.  They get two home games and two neutral games.   

The problem is that Syracuse doesn't pay quality teams what they are worth.  They pay Cornell and Colgate $100k but a good team like Buffalo gets more like $85k because UB really wants the game and could pull an upset.

You can bet Syracuse will not schedule another game if the Bulls win.

SIU is a big game.   
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: ubmae86 on August 02, 2018, 12:42:36 PM
Idk that the Preseason BPI's really tell much, but it's showing Marquette, WV, and Syracuse as a 4,5, and 7 in the overall BPIs. If we can find a way to win even one of those games, that could be a huge boost for us.

Also, they are listing us as 41 in the overall BPI, so we got a little love :)

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24186505/basketball-power-index-surprise-west-virginia-mountaineers-marquette-golden-eagles
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: mikescherrer8 on August 02, 2018, 03:49:58 PM
Baring injuries, I think that this year we can beat the Bonnies. I'm a little sad that we aren't playing Niagara, I always like to play the big 3, but oh well.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: mikescherrer8 on August 02, 2018, 03:56:47 PM
Also, why does the schedule on the website say we're playing Southern Illinois twice? Is that a type-o?
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: UB92 on August 02, 2018, 04:47:49 PM
Also, why does the schedule on the website say we're playing Southern Illinois twice? Is that a type-o?

No...a home and home.  It happens every now and then. I am sure each situation is somewhat unique and not necessarily ideal.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: Buffalobonnie on August 02, 2018, 08:49:51 PM
I’m afraid we find ourselves in the same position that the likes of Gonzaga once found themselves, an up and coming mid major that no P5 conference team wants to schedule on the road.  Therefore it is imperative that we play the likes of Syracuse, West Virginia and Marquette (even if it’s on the road). But also find our way into some of these early season tournaments. Which is why I disappointed in the field for this Belfast classic.  But hey it’s exposure. That all said I’m ok with the schedule. Just wish we had better quality teams coming to Alumni. If not a P5 school someone better than a St. Francis.

And we better hope SIU is good, otherwise playing them twice will hurt us in the metrics.

You have had  a couple of excellent years.  Comparing yourself to Gonzaga?   Why would a power 5 team come to play you?  Drop football and try to get in a conference like the A-10 and then you can dream bigger.   You are set up for another good year drop the football and try to make the move now. 
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: Buffalobonnie on August 02, 2018, 08:51:31 PM
Baring injuries, I think that this year we can beat the Bonnies. I'm a little sad that we aren't playing Niagara, I always like to play the big 3, but oh well.

I don’t think you are winning in the RC, but come on down to Olean and enjoy a great atmosphere for the game.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: DooleyBull06 on August 03, 2018, 05:31:39 AM
Make no mistake about it I am not saying we are what Gonzaga is now. But once upon a time Gonzaga was an up and coming mid major in the same position we are now. Growing pains that come along with winning in a non power conference. And no way should we drop football. At the end of the day football, love it or hate it,  is the biggest money maker.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: MKBullsfan on August 03, 2018, 02:14:16 PM
Why would we want to drop football? We are on the verge of having one of the best years in our D-1 era, we put players in the pros (Khalil Mack), currently building a field house, have exposure on TV/ESPN which helps UB's brand to attract future students and we have income from the TV/MAC deal just to list a few reasons. Why not have both football and basketball AND be good at both? Your view is small minded. Just because Bonnies can't afford a football program doesn't mean we can't. We are the largest state public college, we can have football and basketball. This isn't Olean...
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: DooleyBull06 on August 03, 2018, 05:15:17 PM
Why would we want to drop football? We are on the verge of having one of the best years in our D-1 era, we put players in the pros (Khalil Mack), currently building a field house, have exposure on TV/ESPN which helps UB's brand to attract future students and we have income from the TV/MAC deal just to list a few reasons. Why not have both football and basketball AND be good at both? Your view is small minded. Just because Bonnies can't afford a football program doesn't mean we can't. We are the largest state public college, we can have football and basketball. This isn't Olean...

Preach on. I’m afraid we got sucked in by a Bonnie fan. Let the wins silence all.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: Buffalobonnie on August 03, 2018, 06:54:12 PM
Why would we want to drop football? We are on the verge of having one of the best years in our D-1 era, we put players in the pros (Khalil Mack), currently building a field house, have exposure on TV/ESPN which helps UB's brand to attract future students and we have income from the TV/MAC deal just to list a few reasons. Why not have both football and basketball AND be good at both? Your view is small minded. Just because Bonnies can't afford a football program doesn't mean we can't. We are the largest state public college, we can have football and basketball. This isn't Olean...


No it is not Olean.  Good luck in football that was an outsiders  view.  If you guys want to chase the football dream good luck. I have attended a couple of games in the past five years and have a different opinion.

As far as basketball your conference does not get at large bids.  If you win the conference tournament (which you will have a great chance to do this year). You will go to the NCAA tournament.  If you don’t you will be in the NIT.  Basketball success is tough to sustain in a conference such as the MAC.  If you keep football you can’t change conferences. Enjoy these times as they may be fleeting. 
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: bull_trojan on August 04, 2018, 01:55:07 AM
Winning your conference is unsustainable... from a fan of a team with 3 conference championship appearances (and one win) in 40 years.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: Buffalobonnie on August 04, 2018, 07:02:59 AM
10-2  4 straight during the “glory years”

I will come back in December to talk again.  Good luck in football this year. I will understand if you guys are distracted by preparations for the Raycom Media Camellia Bowl.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: promotherobot on August 04, 2018, 12:20:05 PM
What happened to the home games we supposedly paid for in the Naismith tip-off tournament?

https://www.ubbullrun.com/buffalo-basketball/2018/4/5/17202890/buffalo-mens-basketball-to-participate-in-naismith-hall-of-fame-tip-off

Are Marist and Dartmouth who we got for paying $150K??
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: UB77 on August 04, 2018, 07:14:06 PM
I think the story with that link is wrong. UB will be at the Belfast Classic which is different from the Tip-Off games. Here's a link.

Belfast
http://www.belfastbasketballclassic.com/

and the Tip-Off
http://www.hoophall.com/events/tip-off-tournament/

They are both organized by the Naismith Hall of Fame.

I don't know where the $150,000 went.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: dutchcountry7 on August 04, 2018, 09:25:08 PM
Yes, the $150k was the cost of the tournament for hosting Marist and Dartmouth.  That is what these things cost.   

Whoever wrote that article heard the Bulls were in the Hall of Fame tournament and assumed it was the long running one and not a new second event.

The money from playing Marquette, West Virginia and Syracuse makes these home games possible.  Need the home games if there is going to be any student and fan interest in the team.

The lack of money for additional games is why SIU is being played twice in one season. You don't have to pay if you swap trips and there aren't many good teams interested in swapping trips with the Bulls.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: UB92 on August 05, 2018, 10:16:53 AM
Regarding the Gonzaga vs UB comparison, if you listed all of the ways UB and Gonzaga are alike and all the ways they are different, the differences would be long and the similarities would be short -- even considering basketball.

Football at the non-P5 level is going to be different ten years from now then it is now.  That's just a fact, considering decreased state appropriations, increased expenses, greater scrutiny of expenses, etc.  The UAB example is not going to be the norm (where football is resurrected).  There will be important G5 programs that close or move down a level.  it is happened now in some other sports (like what happened at UB) and will, eventually, impact football.  It is not a question of "if", but a question of "when".

UB has a decision to make soon about football, as do all of the G5 schools.  The financial model where it competes with P5 with less resources is just not sustainable anymore -- it really never was, but now that states are providing a shrinking amount of subsidy (and putting caps on tuition), hard decisions have to be made.

I can't believe I am writing this, but focusing more resources on basketball and looking for a more competitive conference (like the A-10) is worthy of exploration, considering the future.  I am not saying we should go this route, but it needs to be considered.

I always thought UB would (eventually) end up in a P5 conference.  It was the 'sleeping giant'...the public institution in New York State and, thus, would have a "powerhouse" sports program.  For a variety of reasons, that hasn't happened and, as I get older, I just don't see it on the horizon anymore.  I would like to be wrong, but I don't think I am.

 
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: bull_trojan on August 06, 2018, 01:22:18 AM
I think this is overstated, the current decision for G5 schools is whether to continue playing all sports or to cut down to your sport minimum and reinvest in Football and Basketball.  UB already made that decision.

The tv money in football is too good, the exposure, the auxiliary benefits, (football season is during application season) and ultimately, the attendance is the best, even at UB 6 games at 20k = 120k fans vs basketball's 15 games at 3k = 45k fans.

When it comes to Bona vs UB, Bona spends 1.2 million more than UB on Men's Basketball annually per EADA reports.

But based on their resources, Bona's spending represents 5.75% of their endowment and their per student cost is $1,642

UB's spending represents .34% of their endowment and their per student cost is $72. They'd only need to increase per student spending by $40 to bridge the gap between UB and Bona.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: squire17 on August 06, 2018, 05:35:13 PM
The tv money in football is too good, the exposure, the auxiliary benefits, (football season is during application season) and ultimately, the attendance is the best, even at UB 6 games at 20k = 120k fans vs basketball's 15 games at 3k = 45k fans.

Men’s Basketball has about 15 members and then about 5 coaches. Football has about, what, 90 players and 10 coaches? Do the math.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: squire17 on August 06, 2018, 05:43:49 PM
Just checked last year’s football roster and coaching/admin positions. 100 athletes and 24 coaches/admin. Football at UB = $$$ loser
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: UB92 on August 06, 2018, 05:49:20 PM
I think this is overstated, the current decision for G5 schools is whether to continue playing all sports or to cut down to your sport minimum and reinvest in Football and Basketball.  UB already made that decision.

The tv money in football is too good, the exposure, the auxiliary benefits, (football season is during application season) and ultimately, the attendance is the best, even at UB 6 games at 20k = 120k fans vs basketball's 15 games at 3k = 45k fans.

When it comes to Bona vs UB, Bona spends 1.2 million more than UB on Men's Basketball annually per EADA reports.

But based on their resources, Bona's spending represents 5.75% of their endowment and their per student cost is $1,642

UB's spending represents .34% of their endowment and their per student cost is $72. They'd only need to increase per student spending by $40 to bridge the gap between UB and Bona.

1.  It is my contention that while UB addressed an issue in the short-term, the football question is going to come up over and over again.  Nothing has been addressed...only delayed..with those programs UB eliminated as a temporary fix.
2.  I am not sure why you are quoting revenues for b-ball or football without any commentary on the costs.
3.  What is the relationship (without cherry picking examples) of enrollment and football success?  Does that study exist?
4.  What does the endowment have to do with anything?  Truly, I am asking, since a university doesn't have one endowment, but has many, many funds that are endowed for specific purposes.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: squire17 on August 06, 2018, 05:50:25 PM
It boggles the mind that a University will have a student: professor ratio of 40>1, while the athlete: coach ratio is 4 to 1. That is pathetic, and has nothing specific to UB. That is the sign of a sick culture.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: bull_trojan on August 06, 2018, 07:54:04 PM

1.  It is my contention that while UB addressed an issue in the short-term, the football question is going to come up over and over again.  Nothing has been addressed...only delayed..with those programs UB eliminated as a temporary fix.
2.  I am not sure why you are quoting revenues for b-ball or football without any commentary on the costs.
3.  What is the relationship (without cherry picking examples) of enrollment and football success?  Does that study exist?
4.  What does the endowment have to do with anything?  Truly, I am asking, since a university doesn't have one endowment, but has many, many funds that are endowed for specific purposes.

1. Could be true for UB, the stadium is so bad it's a negative X-factor. Your original post said this would be a G5-wide issue, I disagree but time will tell.

2. Nationwide, football nets more money than Basketball. That may not be the case at Buffalo. To quote the great Cat in the Hat, it's fun to have fun, but you have to know how.

3. My argument is that football helps increase # of applications. I think NCAA Tourney helps your yield as it occurs during acceptance letter time. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flutie_effect

4. Just saying that this debate is often framed at what a University can afford...i.e. you have to cut football if you want to be able to afford big time basketball, however there is also something to be said for University priorities. The endowment (generally the measure of a University's wealth) and price per person figures were there to illustrate that point. If UB leadership said lets spend our resources at the same rate as St. Bonaventure, we'd have between 38 million (5.75% of the endowment) and $46 million ($1,642/student).
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: ChubbyHubby on August 07, 2018, 10:19:13 AM
It boggles the mind that a University will have a student: professor ratio of 40>1, while the athlete: coach ratio is 4 to 1. That is pathetic, and has nothing specific to UB. That is the sign of a sick culture.
While I agree that the ratios are a bad sign, this statement itself is very misleading.  In your 4 to 1 ratio, you've lumped coaches, trainers, equipment personnel, admin, graduate assistants, ... all under the umbrella of coach, but your professor ratio of 40>1, you seem to have left all of the support staff positions out.  The ratios would still be out of wack, but if you're going to make comparisons, use all of the data.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: dutchcountry7 on August 07, 2018, 10:48:23 AM
The tv money in football is too good

Each school in the MAC gets $700k a year from the TV deal.  For comparison, UB is getting $1.8 Million for ONE GAME at Ohio State.

The TV money is horrible! And it is only that high because of the weeknight games which no one attends but gives ESPN something to put on TV. 




Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: dutchcountry7 on August 07, 2018, 10:55:01 AM

1. Could be true for UB, the stadium is so bad it's a negative X-factor. Your original post said this would be a G5-wide issue, I disagree but time will tell.

4. If UB leadership said lets spend our resources at the same rate as St. Bonaventure, we'd have between 38 million (5.75% of the endowment) and $46 million ($1,642/student).


1. The football stadium is the biggest problem with the program.  It is a horrible venue for games.  You are miles away from the field.  There is no atmosphere or noise. 

4. If students and fans attended UB basketball games at the same ratio as the Bonnies we would have 10,000 students and 60,000 alumni/fans at each basketball game.  Let's be honest.  The Bonnies care about basketball more than UB.  UB seems to have a bigger interest in the Bills and the Sabres.  Which is what the Pegulas want.  They don't want the Bulls pulling away from their 'One Buffalo' sports/entertainment monopoly.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: bull_trojan on August 07, 2018, 02:58:46 PM
The tv money in football is too good

Each school in the MAC gets $700k a year from the TV deal.  For comparison, UB is getting $1.8 Million for ONE GAME at Ohio State.

The TV money is horrible! And it is only that high because of the weeknight games which no one attends but gives ESPN something to put on TV.

...Compared to the A10's previous deal that gave teams about $312k a year... (https://www.vuhoops.com/2012/10/3/3448930/basketball-isnt-worth-much-to-tv)
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: promotherobot on August 07, 2018, 05:28:06 PM

1. Could be true for UB, the stadium is so bad it's a negative X-factor. Your original post said this would be a G5-wide issue, I disagree but time will tell.

4. If UB leadership said lets spend our resources at the same rate as St. Bonaventure, we'd have between 38 million (5.75% of the endowment) and $46 million ($1,642/student).


1. The football stadium is the biggest problem with the program.  It is a horrible venue for games.  You are miles away from the field.  There is no atmosphere or noise. 

4. If students and fans attended UB basketball games at the same ratio as the Bonnies we would have 10,000 students and 60,000 alumni/fans at each basketball game.  Let's be honest.  The Bonnies care about basketball more than UB.  UB seems to have a bigger interest in the Bills and the Sabres.  Which is what the Pegulas want.  They don't want the Bulls pulling away from their 'One Buffalo' sports/entertainment monopoly.
I don't think that's true. If anything the Pegulas would love for the Bulls to be enough of a draw to share their stadium with them. And why do you think it's a zero sum game? Does following UB require renouncing the Bills?
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: squire17 on August 07, 2018, 05:30:44 PM
It boggles the mind that a University will have a student: professor ratio of 40>1, while the athlete: coach ratio is 4 to 1. That is pathetic, and has nothing specific to UB. That is the sign of a sick culture.
While I agree that the ratios are a bad sign, this statement itself is very misleading.  In your 4 to 1 ratio, you've lumped coaches, trainers, equipment personnel, admin, graduate assistants, ... all under the umbrella of coach, but your professor ratio of 40>1, you seem to have left all of the support staff positions out.  The ratios would still be out of wack, but if you're going to make comparisons, use all of the data.

Well put. FWIW, I thought of the same thing after I had already posted. I thought that I had submitted another post that addressed my error, but it failed to post for some reason. I was too lazy to post again. You are absolutely right, though. I would love to know what the actual ratio is when all the admin/support staff is included.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: rma on August 07, 2018, 06:17:49 PM
The tv money in football is too good

Each school in the MAC gets $700k a year from the TV deal.  For comparison, UB is getting $1.8 Million for ONE GAME at Ohio State.

The TV money is horrible! And it is only that high because of the weeknight games which no one attends but gives ESPN something to put on TV.

...Compared to the A10's previous deal that gave teams about $312k a year... (https://www.vuhoops.com/2012/10/3/3448930/basketball-isnt-worth-much-to-tv)
What does St Bonaventure's football program get for ONE GAME at Ohio State?
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: squire17 on August 07, 2018, 07:17:10 PM
Reportedly double what UB’s baseball, lacrosse, and ice hockey teams have earned in the last ten years.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: dutchcountry7 on August 08, 2018, 09:21:47 AM
The tv money in football is too good

Each school in the MAC gets $700k a year from the TV deal.  For comparison, UB is getting $1.8 Million for ONE GAME at Ohio State.

The TV money is horrible! And it is only that high because of the weeknight games which no one attends but gives ESPN something to put on TV.

...Compared to the A10's previous deal that gave teams about $312k a year... (https://www.vuhoops.com/2012/10/3/3448930/basketball-isnt-worth-much-to-tv)


I don't know what the A10 deal is and nor do I care.


You said the MAC made great money off their TV contracts and they don't.  $700k for all sports--basketball and football--is not a lucrative football contract. 


If UB could get some fans to the games, they could make more than that money from an actual fan base and tell ESPN no thanks for the weeknight games.  But the stadium is horrible for fans so why would anyone go see them in person on a Wednesday or Thursday night when they can watch on TV and flip back and forth between other things going on?



Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: dutchcountry7 on August 08, 2018, 09:45:06 AM

1. Could be true for UB, the stadium is so bad it's a negative X-factor. Your original post said this would be a G5-wide issue, I disagree but time will tell.

4. If UB leadership said lets spend our resources at the same rate as St. Bonaventure, we'd have between 38 million (5.75% of the endowment) and $46 million ($1,642/student).


1. The football stadium is the biggest problem with the program.  It is a horrible venue for games.  You are miles away from the field.  There is no atmosphere or noise. 

4. If students and fans attended UB basketball games at the same ratio as the Bonnies we would have 10,000 students and 60,000 alumni/fans at each basketball game.  Let's be honest.  The Bonnies care about basketball more than UB.  UB seems to have a bigger interest in the Bills and the Sabres.  Which is what the Pegulas want.  They don't want the Bulls pulling away from their 'One Buffalo' sports/entertainment monopoly.
I don't think that's true. If anything the Pegulas would love for the Bulls to be enough of a draw to share their stadium with them. And why do you think it's a zero sum game? Does following UB require renouncing the Bills?


It is not a zero sum but there is a finite number of football fans in WNY and there is a finite number of football entertainment dollars.

How many people are going to shell out $100 to UB on Saturday (or Tuesday) to watch football and then turn around and shell out $300 on Sunday to watch football?

They will do one or the other.  And the Bills have the atmosphere.  The Bulls do not.  And college students don't go to games when teams don't play on campus so the atmosphere will be worse if they ever tried to abondon UB Stadium and join the Bills with a shared facility.  Ask Pitt, Temple, Miami, UMass, or even Georgia State about this.  There is a reason Georgia State got their own stadium, UMass moved most of their games back home, and Temple is in the process of getting their own.  It is the same reason that Cincinnati (UC/Bangles) , Houston (UH/Texans), Seattle (UW/Seahawks), San Fran (Stanford/SJSU/49ers), DC (Maryland/Redskins) and many others don't share facilities.  Hell, the two separate stadiums for Vanderbilt and the Titans are closer together than UB's downtown campus and the main campus. And you can get from Georgia State's stadium to the Falcon's stadium, and then to Georgia Tech's stadium all in less time than getting between the UB campuses.

There is a reason no one wants to share stadiums despite it costing a lot of money to operate the stadiums.

Buffalo is a small market. Right between Birmingham, Alabama and Grand Rapids, Michigan in population.  Small by NFL standards and even smaller when you consider there is also an FBS team. 

Pegulas want the Bills and Sabres to be the only sports entertainment options in town.  If the fall you watch the Bills and in the winter/spring you watch the Sabres.  That is their key to success.  UB is a competior and they know it. A competitor that can undercut them because of more tax payer support and no labor cost for their players.  If UB took off it would be a big hit to the Pegula's business.




Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: BrooklynBull on August 08, 2018, 10:13:36 AM
The tv money in football is too good

Each school in the MAC gets $700k a year from the TV deal.  For comparison, UB is getting $1.8 Million for ONE GAME at Ohio State.

The TV money is horrible! And it is only that high because of the weeknight games which no one attends but gives ESPN something to put on TV.

...Compared to the A10's previous deal that gave teams about $312k a year... (https://www.vuhoops.com/2012/10/3/3448930/basketball-isnt-worth-much-to-tv)


I don't know what the A10 deal is and nor do I care.


You said the MAC made great money off their TV contracts and they don't.  $700k for all sports--basketball and football--is not a lucrative football contract. 


If UB could get some fans to the games, they could make more than that money from an actual fan base and tell ESPN no thanks for the weeknight games.  But the stadium is horrible for fans so why would anyone go see them in person on a Wednesday or Thursday night when they can watch on TV and flip back and forth between other things going on?

Regardless of how high you got attendance, even enough people to offset the current level of TV money, why would you ever say no to more money?
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: MillenniumBull on August 08, 2018, 10:51:38 AM
Why would we want to drop football? We are on the verge of having one of the best years in our D-1 era, we put players in the pros (Khalil Mack), currently building a field house, have exposure on TV/ESPN which helps UB's brand to attract future students and we have income from the TV/MAC deal just to list a few reasons. Why not have both football and basketball AND be good at both? Your view is small minded. Just because Bonnies can't afford a football program doesn't mean we can't. We are the largest state public college, we can have football and basketball. This isn't Olean...

Let me start by saying, I do not want to drop a level in football, (remove the track, invest in the band, improve the concert series, etc...). Just wanted to point out that there are quite a few schools who put more players in the NFL at the FCS level then UB does (hell, Mack was going to FCS Liberty before UB poached their defensive coordinator), ND for example, draw more fans then UB, and still get their once or twice a year big payoff games vs P5 schools. 

And there is no conference that plays better basketball that wants UB. Dropping down won’t make the A10 suddenly interested (nor would the Bonnie’s like the idea), American would take Toledo over UB and they aren’t looking in the MAC direction anyway. Like it or not, until UB starts dominating the MAC consistently in both major sports, (not going to happen, playing field too level) we will be a MAC member.  I believe the MAC can return to being a multi bid league. The 2004 squad deserved an at large. UB will have the SOS this year to be one, just have to win some big games and UB will be one of those teams that other bubble teams will be praying we win in Cleveland.

Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: dutchcountry7 on August 08, 2018, 11:03:06 AM
The tv money in football is too good

Each school in the MAC gets $700k a year from the TV deal.  For comparison, UB is getting $1.8 Million for ONE GAME at Ohio State.

The TV money is horrible! And it is only that high because of the weeknight games which no one attends but gives ESPN something to put on TV.

...Compared to the A10's previous deal that gave teams about $312k a year... (https://www.vuhoops.com/2012/10/3/3448930/basketball-isnt-worth-much-to-tv)


I don't know what the A10 deal is and nor do I care.


You said the MAC made great money off their TV contracts and they don't.  $700k for all sports--basketball and football--is not a lucrative football contract. 


If UB could get some fans to the games, they could make more than that money from an actual fan base and tell ESPN no thanks for the weeknight games.  But the stadium is horrible for fans so why would anyone go see them in person on a Wednesday or Thursday night when they can watch on TV and flip back and forth between other things going on?

Regardless of how high you got attendance, even enough people to offset the current level of TV money, why would you ever say no to more money?


It isn't more money though.  Not when you take a long term look at it. Weeknight games are a significant hit to a program.  Less people attend the games, traffic is much harder to manage, you have to pay more for policiing, there is less alumni engagement (it isn't a full day event), and many schools have to cancel classes in the afternoon to accomodate.  And that is just a few of the issues... 

There is a reason teams like Indiana, Vanderbilt, Wake Forrest and other low revenue P5 programs still play on Saturdays despite the day being crowded and they struggle with exposure.

Their games would be more valuable to TV networks than the MAC but they refuse to move because it will hurt their programs.  Fan, student, and alumni enagagement is the most important long term metric.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: bull_trojan on August 08, 2018, 12:34:07 PM

You said the MAC made great money off their TV contracts and they don't.  $700k for all sports--basketball and football--is not a lucrative football contract. 


That's not what I said. I said at the G5 level, the money is too good, one of several reasons schools are not looking to drop football.

As far as Buffalo goes, I agree with you on the stadium and the weeknight games, our struggles are lack of fan support, but these things damage our ability to build a fan base. At the end of the day, our only hope is for the product on the field to improve.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: bull_trojan on August 08, 2018, 02:59:38 PM
Texas Rio Grande Valley study supports move to FBS football:

https://www.themonitor.com/sports/utrgv_vaqueros/article_2aa53d18-9aba-11e8-9d46-1ba23372cff8.html
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: dutchcountry7 on August 08, 2018, 04:15:27 PM
Texas Rio Grande Valley study supports move to FBS football:

https://www.themonitor.com/sports/utrgv_vaqueros/article_2aa53d18-9aba-11e8-9d46-1ba23372cff8.html

This has been known for a while.  They have been laying the ground work for it.  They freed up athletics money when they merged UT-Pan American and UT-Brownsville into one school.  They completely eliminated one athletic department.


The goal is to have a big University anchor in South Texas and that includes football when you're in Texas.  There are very few four year colleges with football in Texas.  Unlike New York which has many.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: mikescherrer8 on August 08, 2018, 05:29:11 PM
Can this talk of FBS football be moved into general discussion or UB football? This is a board for UB basketball's 2018-2019 schedule. Lol.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: DooleyBull06 on August 08, 2018, 10:18:44 PM
Can this talk of FBS football be moved into general discussion or UB football? This is a board for UB basketball's 2018-2019 schedule. Lol.


Agreed. When I made the comparison to Gonzaga I was speaking in a general basketball sense.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: BrooklynBull on August 09, 2018, 12:25:19 AM
Women's out of conference schedule announced:

(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=690/cr=n/d=d5gyf/zaq7ew8ve72h8wg5.jpg)
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: dutchcountry7 on August 09, 2018, 09:29:15 AM
Is the Stanford game when students are away?

If so, that is a shame.  This is a big get and would be nice if there was a big crowd and energized crowd.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: UB85 on August 09, 2018, 12:09:48 PM

You said the MAC made great money off their TV contracts and they don't.  $700k for all sports--basketball and football--is not a lucrative football contract. 


That's not what I said. I said at the G5 level, the money is too good, one of several reasons schools are not looking to drop football.

As far as Buffalo goes, I agree with you on the stadium and the weeknight games, our struggles are lack of fan support, but these things damage our ability to build a fan base. At the end of the day, our only hope is for the product on the field to improve.

I have always maintained the most damaging to building a fan base is the incompetence coming from the administration, AD's office and the tepid support for UB from the state. This has resulted in what was a solid program in the 70s only to be dropped entirely, resurrected as a D3 program, graduating to a moribund D1 program for years, then to a vision of becoming the next big time athletics brand and retreating to a woefully under-promoted NY's Public Powerhouse. One must have a vision, stick to it, build it, stay true to it even in the face of taking step back on occasion, and continually bring along people both inside and outside the university along who are totally committed to the vision. Lacking that football is likely to continue as a rudderless program.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: UB85 on August 09, 2018, 12:13:06 PM
Excellent schedules for both men's and women's programs. Until we become a well respected and recognized top mid-major program we won't be able to schedule "marquee" opponents on campus. The best we can perhaps hope for is a game at Key Bank Center against such a team.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: MillenniumBull on August 12, 2018, 08:24:00 PM
Excellent schedules for both men's and women's programs. Until we become a well respected and recognized top mid-major program we won't be able to schedule "marquee" opponents on campus. The best we can perhaps hope for is a game at Key Bank Center against such a team.

Even Gonzaga doesn’t get marquee opponents to come to Spokane (outside of UW & WSU). What they do get is invites to very good invitational tournies at neutral sites.  P5 schools playing tuff non-conference road games vs midmajors despite the pedigree is a pipe dream.
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: ubmae86 on August 13, 2018, 12:39:13 PM
Excellent schedules for both men's and women's programs. Until we become a well respected and recognized top mid-major program we won't be able to schedule "marquee" opponents on campus. The best we can perhaps hope for is a game at Key Bank Center against such a team.

Even Gonzaga doesn’t get marquee opponents to come to Spokane (outside of UW & WSU). What they do get is invites to very good invitational tournies at neutral sites.  P5 schools playing tuff non-conference road games vs midmajors despite the pedigree is a pipe dream.

I feel like Stanford coming to UB is a pretty big get, no?
Title: Re: 2018-2019 Schedules
Post by: BrooklynBull on August 13, 2018, 12:47:33 PM
Excellent schedules for both men's and women's programs. Until we become a well respected and recognized top mid-major program we won't be able to schedule "marquee" opponents on campus. The best we can perhaps hope for is a game at Key Bank Center against such a team.

Even Gonzaga doesn’t get marquee opponents to come to Spokane (outside of UW & WSU). What they do get is invites to very good invitational tournies at neutral sites.  P5 schools playing tuff non-conference road games vs midmajors despite the pedigree is a pipe dream.

I feel like Stanford coming to UB is a pretty big get, no?

It is, but that is for the women.  Also the Stanford coach is a local and she may be making one last trip back to the Buffalo area before retiring.